WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.000 I think it's so interesting because I've done two tours this year, and then a couple those couple movies and TV shows, and it's so funny. Like, how different. 2 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:17.000 Dani, it's only September. I know. Y', all. Y', all, did you hear what just happened? 3 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:18.000 Hello. 4 00:00:17.000 --> 00:02:42.000 Hello. Dana here. Welcome to Dance Plus. I am jacked, you guys. My guest today is Danny Vitale. She is hands down, one of the workingest choreographers of this immediate time. But maybe our time, only time will tell. She is young, and she is rapidly ascending my list of favorite people to work for. So light, so bright, so thoughtful, so fun. I'm so excited to share this conversation with Dani. But first, we do wins here on the podcast, and today I am celebrating. Today I am celebrating being a veil checked for what could be a really, really cool thing. So I'm celebrating that I'm close enough to be on the avails list. That's a win. Actually doing this gig would be like, shut it all the way down. Like, stupid, stupid, stupid celebration. Like, I might actually invite all of you to a. If it happens. That's what's going well for me. How about you? What are you on a veil for? Congrats. Great job. Proud of you. So glad that you're winning. Keep winning. Okay, let's do it. Danny Vitali and I should be separated at all times. There's no reason why we need to be seated this close together. It's a riot. You guys. Like, such a good time. But also, we're digging into some important stuff, like the great dancing that you don't know that she's done. Like, the choreography that you don't know that she's done. Like, why she has a hard time being celebrated and all of her delightful, neurodivergent quirks that you don't know about yet, but you're about to. My friends, this is the one and only Danny Vitale. That doesn't make sense to you yet, but it will. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. This is Danny Vitale. I'm so glad you're here. Cheers. Cheers. This is not whole milk, by the way. 5 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:48.000 This is whole something else. Yeah. 6 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:53.000 I have been dying to sip on a chilled wine and talk shop with you. 7 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:54.000 Yes. 8 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:59.000 Welcome to my living room. This is my bookshelf. Thanks for having me over there. Hey, Riz just went to her room because she cannot be trusted. 9 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:00.000 No. 10 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:01.000 Between. 11 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.000 Oh, is it dinner too late? 12 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:04.000 Yeah, it's dinner time. 13 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:05.000 She's gonna get hangry. 14 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:13.000 Okay, so here's how the podcast starts. Respond. You gotta Respond. Welcome to the podcast. 15 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.000 Thank you so much. 16 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:26.000 Yes. Okay. You've got to introduce yourself. It's what all my guests do on the podcast. Tell us anything you would like us to know about you, and then I'll tell them all the things that we don't want you to know about you. 17 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:31.000 My name is Danny Vitale. I'm five, six. 18 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:32.000 Totally. 19 00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.000 I can skateboard and roller skin. No, I can't. 20 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:37.000 Oh, I got so excited. 21 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:49.000 I'm from Cleveland, Ohio. Okay, cool. I've been in L. A. For almost 20 years now. Yep. Which is weird to say when you. When you're out here longer than you were home. Yeah. In your home state. 22 00:03:49.000 --> 00:03:51.000 Yeah, totally. It's home now. 23 00:03:51.000 --> 00:04:01.000 I was. I am a dancer, but I danced a lot. And then I became a choreographer and creative director and movement coach and director and, you know, producer. All. All the stuff that we do. 24 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:02.000 Wear a lot of hats. 25 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:04.000 Yeah. Wearing a lot of hats. 26 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:05.000 Yeah. I'm drawn to you for this reason. 27 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:17.000 And I love just creating and working with talented people and I love playing video games. Fortnite. Yeah, Fortnite. I love Fortnite. And I don't know, I think. 28 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:25.000 Okay, I love this. And this is a great jumping off point because you led with dancer or did you lead with farts? Video games? No, I live with farts. You followed up. 29 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:26.000 A lot of stuff gives me gas. Yeah. 30 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:41.000 Okay. I. Because we kind of grew up, I think I'm. I know I'm older than you, but we grew up in a similar time. Dance wise work was aplenty. You and I overlapped only a handful of times, but I think I can speak for us both. 31 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.000 I could name rapid fire. 32 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:45.000 Yeah. 33 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:51.000 The overlapping. When we did overlap, it was so iconic and epic. No, you go, okay, well, fine. 34 00:04:51.000 --> 00:05:05.000 I'm less good with memory and stuff, but I do remember, you know that feeling because you're professional, that you're like, I am about to get the wrong kind of attention because I can't stop giggling. 35 00:05:05.000 --> 00:05:07.000 Yeah. Every Manny and Brooklyn, I should move 36 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:14.000 myself away from this person. And that's you. That person is you on the job. And. And. 37 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.000 Yeah. 38 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:24.000 Yeah. And at audition now I've now had auditions. Also, I've now had the pleasure of working for you. Yeah. In which case I'm less frightened of getting in trouble. But I. 39 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.000 But there is some of that imposter syndrome where I'm like, we're going to get. 40 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:28.000 We're going to get in trouble. 41 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:30.000 So he's getting someone's post. Yeah. 42 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:39.000 For having a good ass Time on set. Anyways, I really appreciate you for being as funny as you are good at what you do. 43 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:40.000 Thanks. 44 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:41.000 And those are few and far between. 45 00:05:41.000 --> 00:06:04.000 But you know what? That's you too, though, you know, you and Jilly and Meg. Like, we'd like to have a good time and, like, not to be all sappy, but I think, like, growing up on a lot of those jobs with you three, whether you three were on them all together or assisting or dancing or leading the room, like, you were the ones that always had that humor. So it was like, oh, we can like, kind of all have fun, but then dial it in with when we have to dial it in. 46 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:12.000 I think we're. I think we're all people over product. Like, humanity first. I don't know if we're humor first, but I think we're humans first. 47 00:06:12.000 --> 00:06:13.000 Yeah. 48 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:24.000 Yeah. And that leads to definitely more room for play and breath and laughter and memories. Memories. Great memories. Oh, that won't be funny to you guys. 49 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.000 Yeah. Tapping for Neo on a Disney special. 50 00:06:28.000 --> 00:06:30.000 I don't remember that. 51 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:31.000 Maybe it was just Jilly. 52 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:36.000 I think it was just like, me, Jill, Martha fun, Dom Kelly fun. 53 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:41.000 It was a live performance that then turned into, like, a huge spectacle. 54 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.000 And you're tap dancing with some of the greatest on the planet. 55 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:44.000 Yeah. 56 00:06:44.000 --> 00:07:12.000 I feel like a lot of the people that are moving to LA now or are learning about you now, are learning about you, the film choreographer now, because. Yeah, because you choreograph fucking feature films now. A lot of them. Four in one year. In this year, which is only nine months through. Yeah, eight months through, technically. So, yeah, we're gonna unpack that in just a second. But I don't think a lot of people know about the dance work that you have done. And I would like to celebrate you and yourself and the dance work that we have. Yeah. 57 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:13.000 Like. Yes. 58 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:20.000 Okay, so that sounds insane. What are the gigs that you are most proud of, dance wise? 59 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:31.000 I think I love chaos. I thrive in chaos. But I do love to bitch and moan. Yeah. But, like, I do it in like a. Like this fucking socks. But, like, we're gonna get through it. 60 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:32.000 I hear that. I've seen that. I felt that. 61 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:33.000 Yeah. 62 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:34.000 Okay. 63 00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:48.000 You know, and I kind of. The ones that are. That really hold true or like, that are like, here are the ones that really were the most painful to get through. But then, like, we had the best time. Yeah. Going. 64 00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:52.000 It's like summer camp. A gig is camp. 65 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.000 It's full camp. 66 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:53.000 It's camp. 67 00:07:53.000 --> 00:08:07.000 It's like hazing with being Away from your family, with challenges with. And everything is always like new. You're like in a random ass place with some random ass food and random you've never met. 68 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:17.000 It's six in the morning, you're on top, dropping everywhere. Staples center parking lot. Your music changes fold and somebody is spray painting your ass cheeks blue. 69 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:19.000 And then the music changes. Then all of a sudden, like, and 70 00:08:19.000 --> 00:08:21.000 now you have to do it in a heel. 71 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:30.000 And then the one thing we thought we were doing, they were like, wait, when were we ever doing that? And you're like, oh. So I think like those ones are the most. Okay. 72 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.000 Chaos. 73 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:50.000 Chaos. I love it. Because then the end product, we have so little control of the end product. And I've had to relinquish that because I used to be like, but this is how you should shoot it and this is how you should edit it and this is how it should be colored and this is how it should flow. And. And you kind of have to let the other departments do their thing too. 74 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.000 Yeah, you literally do. You literally do. 75 00:08:53.000 --> 00:09:00.000 Yeah. And nine times out of seven, times out of 10, it's 76 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:04.000 seven times out of 10, it's not what you thought it could be. 77 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:13.000 Yes. Sometimes I'm surprised, like, for better or for worse, like, sometimes I'm like, oh, wow, really cool. Yeah. Or I'm like, okay, yeah, let's talk about that ratio. 78 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:18.000 How often are you proud of the work versus a little bit let down. 79 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:45.000 I'm really exercising this thing of speaking up more during pre production and not afraid. Hate is a wrong word. But I'm now less afraid of people disliking me during the pre production process. Because I really want to make sure the craft or the job that I was given to deliver is as unharmed as possible. If that makes sense. 80 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.000 Like, give yourself a real good chance at doing a great job. 81 00:09:48.000 --> 00:10:16.000 Like, listen, I need three rehearsal days. I can't just do one. Do I want five? Do I want seven? Of course. Budget time, whatever. I need three. But a lot of the time in my earlier days of choreographing. Yeah, you know what? Fuck it, I'll just do one. No, I don't need to rehearse. And I would just kind of do that. And now I'm holding back ground. More of like, listen, because I can say on this project, this project, this and this project, I had this, this and this. 82 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:17.000 Right. 83 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:19.000 If you want this result, this is what I need to make that happen. 84 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:22.000 So there's more precedent. You have like something to stand on. 85 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:30.000 Exactly. Yeah. So which Is before, it's hard to speak on something even if you know what the right answer is, because as dancers and choreographers, we always kind of know. 86 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:36.000 Yeah. We have a sense, like after having done it several times. Can we backtrack on likability, though? 87 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.000 Oh, yeah. And I think like, as the choreographer and. And is. It comes from being a dancer, though. 88 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:49.000 Yeah. You know, you want to be liked and you're a yes person and you're pleased culturally, it is like dance culture to please and be right. 89 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:50.000 Yeah. 90 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.000 For the person in charge. 91 00:10:51.000 --> 00:11:01.000 Yes. And so I've always like bent and. And like always was just, you know, being malleable. And then after, I'm like, why isn't 92 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:09.000 anyone else getting to the final product? No, not always. I mean, sometimes it's cool to say yes, but always you must serve the project. 93 00:11:09.000 --> 00:12:01.000 The only thing I never bent on were dancer rates. Dancer conditions. Appreciate you, you know, always like, I. There's so many jobs that dancers have no idea where. I like took half the rate of theirs or used most of my rate to compensate for the lack of a dancer rate. And like that the only. That was the only thing I promised myself when I started choreographing, you know, doing dancers alliance for so long as a dancer, I'm like, I know the money and opportunities will still come for me as a choreographer, but once you lose the support as a. From dancers being one, like, you can't gain that back. And I'm like, why would I be in this position and not do this? So like my one thing that I never bent on, I'll bend on creative and time and pre production all, all day. But like a chair and water and a rate and paid in a timely way. That's where I draw the line. 94 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:02.000 No flex on that. 95 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.000 Yeah. 96 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.000 Love you for that. 97 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.000 Like, I will. I will go to. 98 00:12:05.000 --> 00:12:06.000 I will. 99 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:20.000 I will ruin my relationship to go to bat with production for dancers where, like, yeah, that would never happen when I was a dancer. We'd be like left out to cold. And when you see your choreographer just like, oh, yeah. 100 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:30.000 I think what you're like, I have a deep belief and I think you and I both share this based on what you just said, is that when dancers do well, so do choreographers. 101 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:31.000 Yeah. 102 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.000 And when. And when choreographers do well, so should dancers. 103 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:35.000 Yes. 104 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:49.000 And. And I do, I think. I don't know why, but I've wound up talking a lot about genrefication of dance on the podcast lately and how I understand that it's useful, but sometimes it bothers Me to really categorize movement. 105 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:54.000 Yeah. So do you hate when you're like teaching a masterclass or something or a thing. And they're like, well, what are you teaching? 106 00:12:54.000 --> 00:13:03.000 You're like, yeah, I'm going to teach zero to hero in which there is a locking section. Yeah. Like, that's what I'm. 107 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:09.000 Yeah, I'm going to teach ballet for the first half. Then, like, we're going to do jazz. 108 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:13.000 Jazz focused across the floor. But the combo itself is. 109 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:14.000 Yes. But you. 110 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.000 You can wear shoes. 111 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.000 You can also wear heels, but you can also go barefoot. 112 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.000 Totally. 113 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.000 And the song is Max Richter. And you're like, I don't know what to tell you. 114 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:34.000 I don't know what to tell. So. Yes, that comes up a lot. The genre. The genre of occasion. Of that. And I think we've kind of borrowed that when we think about choreographer. Dancer. Yeah, we're dance team. 115 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:35.000 Yes. 116 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:45.000 There is choreography team, but there is dance team. And choreography team is a part of dance team and movement. Right. Like the. The project calls for movement. Dancers and choreographers do that. 117 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:46.000 Yeah. 118 00:13:46.000 --> 00:14:09.000 Choreographers don't do that. Dancers don't do that. Like, together, we team movement do that. And I love thinking of it holistically like that. And. And I. It's unfortunate that you would have to sacrifice your rate to be sure that dancers have it. But of course, we don't live in a dream world where there's infinite funds for the arts and for d dance in. In entertainment. But yeah, that's. 119 00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:16.000 Yeah. Or if there's no funds, I'm like, no one's back handspringing. No one's totally doing the most. We are going to act our wage. 120 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:17.000 Yeah. 121 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:25.000 And if we're making. If you guys are making this, then we are going to perform as that. We're not going to do 12 numbers on tour. We're going to do six. 122 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:26.000 Right. 123 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:31.000 So let's not. And moan about it. What it could be, what it should be. Let's actually just arise to where it is. 124 00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:36.000 And managing those expectations did one of the many jobs, of course, choreographer that they don't teach. 125 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:37.000 Yeah. 126 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.000 Because dance class, the. 127 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:45.000 The dancer brain and soul and ego, you know, those they get. They turn into like these little monsters sometimes. And you have to. 128 00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:46.000 Because we're humans. 129 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:47.000 Yes. 130 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:48.000 Yes. 131 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:53.000 And you have to be like, okay, well, you agreed to do this under the pretenses. It didn't change. 132 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.000 That's important. 133 00:14:53.000 --> 00:15:07.000 But I'm. I'm here to take care of you. You. Like, if you're not paid within 30 I'll pay you out of my pocket. I'll figure that out. But let's not, like, burn the building down while we're trying to figure it out. I think that's the hard. 134 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:11.000 Okay, so we're talking, like, we're talking etiquette. 135 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.000 Let's just spiral into etiquette. 136 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.000 What we should and should not do. 137 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:16.000 Yeah. 138 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:19.000 What are some of the things that you wish more dancers did more often? 139 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:28.000 I think just take a breath, take a beat. But I know it's hard because we, like, come up with a chip on our shoulder. 140 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:29.000 Yeah. 141 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:37.000 You know, and we've been in those rooms where I think we can be, like, hyper vigilant of, like, they're gonna fuck us. They're about to fuck us. 142 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:39.000 You come in with armor on in 143 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:48.000 the defensive position, and I can't say, like, dancers trust your choreographers because, I mean, now more than ever, like, I think it's maybe scarier or harder. 144 00:15:48.000 --> 00:16:06.000 I've heard some horror stories, and I know that there are tropes of the evil choreographer. Like, I actually was so heartbroken when I saw the movie Sing. It's about all those animals singing, and they're doing, like, a, like, Like a American Idol type show. 145 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:07.000 Yes. 146 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:14.000 And the choreographer is the villain of that movie. Yeah, Yeah, I know that comes from somewhere because it's a trope. 147 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.000 Yes. 148 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.000 Like, person at the front of the room with a stick and slapping you and, like, shouting, 5678. 149 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.000 Yeah. 150 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:30.000 That's a trope for a reason. Like, I'm not saying nobody's ever done that, but we have evolved so much, y'. All. We know better, and most of us do better. Most of us. 151 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:31.000 Yeah. 152 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:37.000 But this is a squeaky wheel gets the grease situation. But then people only hear about stories. 153 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:40.000 Nobody's, no one's talking about how, how 154 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.000 lovely that set was. It was just a non issue. So we don't talk about it. 155 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:44.000 Yeah. 156 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:49.000 We wind up talking about choreographers that are problematic because there's a problem. And I do think we should be addressing the problem. 157 00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:10.000 Taking advantage. Advantage of the room is good, I think, like, sometimes, like, I, I know I can run a job, but I, I, I will say that with utmost confidence. I can I run a room with dancers and a job in that degree, like, impeccably well. But then you do find the ones that like to take advantage of it. 158 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.000 Give me an example without naming names. 159 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Coming late. 160 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.000 Oh, I see. 161 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:15.000 Okay. Coming on time. 162 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:16.000 Okay. Okay. 163 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:36.000 Being on your phone, in the corner, little things where it's like, I'M not saying, I, I, I, I forget that those are things that I have to say where I'm like, hey, while you're on the clock and we're in this room and I, I'm just going over this one section really quick or answering these questions, don't go right in my eyeline and go on your phone. Yeah. 164 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:43.000 I'm going to go ahead and say that that doesn't have anything to do with you and the way you're running the room. That sounds like that has to do with them and their training. 165 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:47.000 Totally of. But then you're like, okay, I'm going to say something. 166 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.000 Right. 167 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.000 Yo, will the attitude change? Will the mood change? 168 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:53.000 Yes. 169 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.000 Is it going to take an out of. You know what I mean? Then you get. 170 00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:01.000 Or maybe, I don't know, maybe not. Yeah, you did have. We had a good teachable moment on this Nancy Myers film that you hired me for. 171 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:03.000 So many so great moments. Yeah. 172 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:34.000 So many teachable moments. One of my favorite though was a dancer was running late and you didn't call them out in front of the entire group. You called them in during lunch and you had a seat and were having a casual conversation and you were like, what do you think you should do if you're running late? And Danny, you looked at me and you were like, dana, what should this person do if they're running late? And I was like, don't be late or something. I don't remember what I said. 173 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.000 I was like, totally. 174 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.000 But do you remember what I did say? 175 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:43.000 I don't remember. You said, just don't ever be late. And then you did say like, call your. 176 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.000 Oh, I said, I was like, call production. 177 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:46.000 Yeah, immediately. 178 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:50.000 Whatever the number is on the call sheet, you call them and let them know that you're in. 179 00:18:50.000 --> 00:19:08.000 No, you said call production. And then, and then this dancer said, I, I don't have, I don't have anyone's number. And we said, it is a 200 million dollar plus Warner Brothers production. You are being sent a call sheet with numerous numbers and arrows as to 180 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:11.000 call, blah, blah, blah, if you're having trouble. Yeah. On the day. 181 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.000 That was the excuse. Which it was like a wild. 182 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:27.000 That was why that was a. Yeah, you kind of shot yourself in the foot there with that one. But what you that the answer you were looking for was a different answer. And I actually agree with you. I, because of what I just said. How dance teams should be tight. 183 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:28.000 Yeah. 184 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:39.000 As much as it would pain me to call Mandy Moore and tell her I'm running late I had acid reflexes. 185 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.000 I would move home to Ohio. 186 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.000 I would quit. 187 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.000 Yeah, I'd move home to Ohio. 188 00:19:44.000 --> 00:20:05.000 But dance team should know. Yeah, like, production team definitely should know. I would answer that question now. The assistant or, you know, the second in charge to the choreographer needs to know, because you shouldn't be surprised in the moment when the dancer is missing. If production happened to forget to tell you. 189 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:06.000 Exactly. 190 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:31.000 Dance team. It's kind of like that. The bullseye, right? Like if. If you are the center of the bullseye of your world and the next hero is the assistant choreographer. Tell the assistant choreographer. Assistant choreographer decides. Okay, Choreo team. Danny doesn't have bandwidth to hear this right now. I decide to go to this person, but you kind of bubble out from that bullseye of need to know. I'm not going to text Nancy Myers the furthest out of. 191 00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:41.000 But you're right, I think also on that dancers, which I started to learn as I started to assist and be in more, you know, rooms at different times rather than just rehearsal and shoot day. 192 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:42.000 You. 193 00:20:41.000 --> 00:21:08.000 You kind of are pigeonholed or you're like a racehorse with the blinders on not knowing how much you impact. It's like such an ecosystem. So totally said if a set, you know, said dancer is late, maybe wardrobe would have started on another thing. Maybe they would have picked. They would have started with another shot that day. Like, it's not like you're gonna just be executed once you walk into set. Like, you know, help us strategize by 194 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.000 being honest and letting the right people know what's going on. 195 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:21.000 So I. I. Yeah, I cared about that kid, and I was like, let's have a teachable moment. Like, thank God today wasn't dire or detrimental. And we're behind, and we're all good. And we're all. 196 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.000 I mean, we were behind, but yeah, 197 00:21:24.000 --> 00:21:28.000 you know, we're sitting there eating carne asada for lunch at. In Santa Monica. 198 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.000 It was amazing. This gig was the gift that kept giving. 199 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:35.000 It was amazing. But I was like, let's have like. I was like, I want to teach this kid. And, like, how can I teach this kid? 200 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.000 Because they just straight up didn't tell anyone. 201 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:38.000 No. 202 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.000 And how late were they? 203 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:45.000 Like, pretty late. I think like an hour. Like, it was, like, pretty late where 204 00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:46.000 enough late to make. 205 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.000 Remember, I was worried. I was actually worried. Yeah. 206 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.000 Yeah. 207 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:56.000 Did he get in an accident? Did something happen? You know? Yeah. The humanity at all. You're like, the job. Are you okay? 208 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.000 Is this person okay? 209 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:42.000 Yeah. Yeah. Is your car stuck in your parking garage. Like, I don't know. Weird shit happens. Yeah. But I think, like, the dancer. The dancer in me has never left. It will never leave. And I like to run my rooms and jobs from that perspective, like, instilling the things I love, not instilling things I didn't love. And, you know, taking from so many different rooms. Mandy, hi hat. Nick and R.J. rosaro. Rita and Raj, Brooke Lipton, Brian. You know, you just take from so Ebony, Tanisha. It's just. And they're all so different, and I kind of, like, put them into a big salad bowl and I just kind of, like, cool. You know, I'm like, oh, it's so funny. 210 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:49.000 That is the way I feel about dance. Yeah. Like, a little bit of that, a little bit of this, a little bit of that. Throw it in a bowl, mix it up. It's a chop salad. 211 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.000 It's a chopped salad. It's like that lovely pitfire chop salad. 212 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:54.000 I miss that. 213 00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:55.000 I know what the pro belongs. 214 00:22:55.000 --> 00:23:14.000 I also miss their farmer's market plate. They did a roasted vegetable farmer market on that little silver in the bed in the back in the day with the broccoli. I haven't been there in a while, to be honest. I had a very disappointing bratwurst from there once. It was even Oktoberfest. They were like, come here for October Fest. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm getting abroad. It was so bad. 215 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:25.000 That's like people going to, like, a French restaurant. They're like, I hated their carbonara. You're like, why would you get that there? It's called pitfire pizza. Why are you getting bratwurst? 216 00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.000 That's true. Thank you for the call Out. Thank you for the call. It was October. 217 00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:31.000 You're getting sushi. 218 00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:35.000 You're right. That's on me. You're right. That's on me. You're right. That's on me. 219 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.000 Just because it's October. 220 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:40.000 If we were going to eat after this, we would go to Pitfire and get a pizza, and it would be awesome. 221 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.000 Yes. 222 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:42.000 Well, maybe it would. I don't know. 223 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:48.000 It's. It would be good. It would be good. The sangria and the pizza and the chopped salad. Remember those back in the day? 224 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.000 I do. Okay. Show, like, back on track with, like, the questions sort of. 225 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:54.000 Oh, yeah. 226 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:58.000 I want to talk about. Can I just give you some flowers really quick, please? 227 00:23:58.000 --> 00:23:59.000 I'd love the flowers. 228 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:20.000 Working. Being a choreographer working on a film is challenging because not every film requires a choreographer. Being a choreographer of a Film is hard. Being a choreographer of a non musical might even be harder because on a musical the teams are in place that know musicals. 229 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:21.000 Yeah. 230 00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:31.000 And the way that you operated on this film that, that you just hired me for, that was super special. Wasn't a musical. But we love Nancy Myers. 231 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:32.000 We fucking love Nancy Myers. 232 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:55.000 We fucking love Nancy Myers for seeing the value in dancers outside of the spectacle of unison choreography and eight counts. She sees people who can do tasks repeatedly to an insane degree of detail consistently. She sees a group of people who can take notes quickly. She sees a group of people that can embody different physicalities and not look completely weirdly contorted and forced. 233 00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:57.000 Y. 234 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:05.000 She values dancers and therefore hired a choreographer and hired what, 30 dancers? Something like that. Five. 235 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.000 How many were there of you? 236 00:25:07.000 --> 00:25:08.000 20 something. 237 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.000 Was it 20? Oh, there was like 13. 238 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.000 Oh, okay. 239 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:11.000 Plus five. 240 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.000 And then the six bellman friends. 241 00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.000 Yeah. So yeah, like 20 something. Okay. Yeah. 242 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:28.000 Hired this number of people for a non musical movie that definitely had like a few dance, capital D dance moments, but for the most part we're not dancing. 243 00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:31.000 Yeah. Which means. But where the dancers were hired for, there wasn't. 244 00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.000 There wasn't dancing. What the actors were hired for, there was dancing. 245 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:35.000 Yes. So this is. 246 00:25:35.000 --> 00:26:45.000 Yeah, yeah, I would love to hear. Well, the flowers come in. The fact that that project required stamina, patience, and being assertive in moments. Well, you had to be patient the whole time. 100% of the time you had to be patient, but you had to be assertive in moments and in ways that didn't derail the film, which is not about dance at all. And I really love the way that you championed dancers without having to make it about dance. And always felt protected and spoken for. And I feel like it's easy to say the dancers need water when we're doing 96,000 from in the Heights. And it's like, about dance. But you were really good at advocating for us without making it a weird spectacle, that we're kind of glorified extras, more or less. But I felt very well handled and I really. I'm a very patient person. And I looked at you and I was like, dang, she really is built for this. I think also your sense of humor helped you to laugh off things that other people. That would have nailed the coffin for other people. 247 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:46.000 Yes. 248 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.000 It would have been the final straw for someone. 249 00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.000 Yes. That 250 00:26:52.000 --> 00:27:09.000 I was hired for one day and on the fifth day I really thought that was my last day. And then I was called in for one more. Like people would have that might have been the final straw. And look at you right now. You, like, you are giggling. You are laughing that off, which to me is like. Like Tai chi technique of letting shit 251 00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:12.000 roll off of you and move. 252 00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:23.000 And it had to be you on that gig because it required so much patience, so much stamina. Because how long, like, what was your first day of work on that project? 253 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:25.000 March. Yeah. 254 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:39.000 And today and your last day? Well, last week, right, we had to cancel an episode because you got called back in even after you got wrapped. Like, you got knocked out. They said, that's a wrap on Danny. And then I got the next. Supposed to have the podcast the next 255 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:42.000 three days, and everyone was like, what are you doing? 256 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:59.000 And I'm like, hey, but listen, if there is need and if there is budget, bring the choreographer back after you've clapped him out. I'm not mad at you for saying, okay, now you're really, really done. And being wrong about that. 257 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:00.000 Like, maybe that person today. 258 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:07.000 Actually, yeah, I'm not mad at that at all. But it does require a certain personality. 259 00:28:07.000 --> 00:28:10.000 Those jobs are harder than the musicals. 260 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:14.000 I think so. Like, I think so. Because with the musicals, you have. 261 00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.000 You have the support, you have the understanding, you have a plan. You have a plan and people honor the plan. 262 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.000 Because there are 75 people sweating and busting their ass. 263 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.000 Producers and people. Yeah, of course there's the difficulty that comes with that. 264 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.000 Yeah, totally. 265 00:28:27.000 --> 00:29:30.000 But, like, at least I think the hardest part about doing a lot of the jobs I do is getting some of the people in production or whatever. Maybe it's time or money or anything of to get it done. It's like, it's educating them as to what it takes to get it done. And that is the heart. That is where I spend the most time, the most energy, the most. The most emails, the most calls. Like, that's where all the time is spent is educating and explaining. Well, for this, it's. It's going to take this. And this is why it costs this, because this takes this and it. And it's. I have I. The amount of charts and essays and almost pit every job I have to almost pitch why an assistant is necessary. And it's not an assistant that just gets coffee. Yeah. For a duet with. Between a male and a female. Right. And I'm not talking specifically this Nancy film. That was a rare gem where it was like, what do you need? 266 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:31.000 We'll give it to you. 267 00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:33.000 We'll give it to you. We respect it. We'll actually give you more time. 268 00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.000 It wasn't to fight. It wasn't an ask. 269 00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:53.000 And it was. I felt spoiled because it was. I had everything I need. Everything was, yes, yes. And it was amazing. But a lot of the other stuff I do. I do find myself on, I think a lot of projects where people have never worked with a choreographer in that instance or so it's education. 270 00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:54.000 So you have to be. 271 00:29:54.000 --> 00:30:06.000 I feel like I'm constantly educating. Yeah. So when people ask me, what are my dream. What's my dream job? I'm like, whatever. I actually don't care about the end product. Just like, whatever. I could just walk into production and they're like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I don't have to. 272 00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:12.000 It's one where you're not having to ask for things. It's one where you're not having to educate. It's one where people know what to expect. 273 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:28.000 Working with actors and musicians. Give me the craziest, bougiest diva est, Biggest assholes. Fucking. It's nothing to me. But give me the producer or the PM or the TM that questions me is like, that's where. Those are my nightmares. 274 00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.000 That's tough for you. 275 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.000 It's tough. 276 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.000 Cool. That's good to know. 277 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:33.000 Yeah. 278 00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:46.000 Okay. What I'm hearing and what I know to be true is that there are so many jobs of a choreographer that aren't making eight counts. There's a lot. And so what I'm curious to hear from you because you've had a lot of practice doing this this year. 279 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.000 Yeah. 280 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:55.000 Is like, what are your biggest lessons learned? What were the biggest hurdles for you? How. Oof. You know? 281 00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.000 Yeah. 282 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:07.000 Because. Because I love. You're fucking young. You're a baby in your choreographer life. You're going to be doing this a long time, my friend. And I. And I know that your best work is ahead of you even. And that part is fucking cool. That's cool. 283 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:08.000 It's pretty cool. 284 00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:11.000 That I also know to be true. And that's super flowers. 285 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.000 But I just like, thank you. 286 00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:18.000 You're a learner. You're an adapter. You're also like a mingler, and you're in the mix. 287 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:19.000 You're like. 288 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:21.000 I do think, like, if I had 289 00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.000 to go work at a restaurant right now, I'd be like, all right, let's go. 290 00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:29.000 Yes. And I also think you're. What you said about yourself earlier, like, I'm. I like to. 291 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:30.000 Yeah. 292 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:33.000 But you are also in the arena. You are doing the work. 293 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.000 Yes. 294 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:38.000 And so when you bitch, I listen. Because I'm like, oh, wait, this person Knows the field. 295 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:45.000 I'm never, like, removed and don't know what's going on. Like, if I'm going to. It's coming from, like, knowledge. 296 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.000 Experience. 297 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:51.000 From experiences, literally in it with the person or with the dancer or with the artist, whatever it may be. Yes. Yeah. 298 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:57.000 Like, what would make you. Not over the things that happened in the. This last year's worth of you making movies? 299 00:31:57.000 --> 00:32:05.000 I think it's so interesting because I've done two tours this year, and then a couple. Those Couple movies and TV shows. And it's so funny, like, how different. 300 00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:06.000 Danny, it's only September. 301 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:08.000 I know. Y'. 302 00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:16.000 All. Y'. All. Did you hear what just happened? I did a few tours. Two tours. Yeah. During the. How many films? Four. 303 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:21.000 Yeah. And. And two movies came out this year also. 304 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.000 So you're doing promo and you're doing two films come out. 305 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:26.000 I had Mother Mary and promo. Yeah. But. 306 00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:27.000 Yeah, different. But that's fine. 307 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:38.000 I had Devil Verse, Prada, and Mother Mary come out. And then I did the Madison Beer tour and the Suki Suki Waterhouse tour. And then some of those images you 308 00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:42.000 shared from Madison Beer was beautiful. 309 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:46.000 Thank you. I have been sitting on it because there's so many great photos. 310 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:47.000 Really nice. 311 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:50.000 And she understands the shape of the foot. 312 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:51.000 She. 313 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.000 The foot, the body. 314 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.000 Does she know, you know, what? 315 00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:56.000 She has a. She's never danced or performed in a 316 00:32:56.000 --> 00:32:59.000 Laduka, which is what she's wearing on the. That foot. 317 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:14.000 So that was my. Like, the last tour we did, she did barefoot and little, like, tennis shoes. Then the tour after that, she did combat boots and then this. When I started to see the stage design, I said, it's a Laduka. It's a Laduca. So we. 318 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:16.000 And it so was. You're right. There was nothing else. 319 00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:59.000 She had a rehearsal on a freed boot, and she fell in love. I gave her. I ordered, like, two sizes, and, you know, one. The sizing is weird. Yeah. And to return it to Italy, I was like, fuck that. So I just kept them. And when rehearsals came, I was like, perfect, they're your size. So she wore the free boot, and you would have thought, like, she gained a superpower. So when she put those on, it was so sweet. And then she was like, I need these. And then, you know, I showed her the laducas, and so she had the duka. And, like, it was odd because she's so naturally talented and gifted in, like, her body awareness, but when she put on those shoes, it was like, a dancer. Yeah. Like, Sid Sharice, like, came in there and, and infused into those ankles. But no, she. She knows. 320 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:00.000 She understands the line. 321 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:07.000 Yeah, totally. Like, she knows what looks good. She's very. Like, if it feels weird, it's probably weird. Yeah, no, she's. Love that awareness. 322 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.000 Thank you. Yeah, amazing. 323 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:15.000 But there's so many good photos and videos from that tour and I've been struggling posting because I just. 324 00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:24.000 Well, now I want to ask a whole separate question, which is like, how the did you do that? But let's go back to like, what would have made all of that less hard for you? 325 00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:37.000 This is so funny, but like, I don't know if it's this, but tell me off also. You want what make it less hard? I think just people not being dumb, but I think like, 326 00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.000 yeah, okay. 327 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.000 I think people just not being dumb 328 00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:42.000 for you to not have to be educating all the time. 329 00:34:42.000 --> 00:35:30.000 Yeah. I wish I could actually just do my job. I wish I could just do my job of making up the steps and creating the vision and executing the story. And listen, I'll even reach out a little bit wider than that as to quick change. You know, I'll reach out because obviously any. Anything you can include just makes the product better. But like having to be an AD or be a DP or be a camera operator or be a tour manager or be a production manager or be a creative designer or be a fucking content designer or that's where I'm just like, fuck, I wish some of these things just had a better structure. So I do try and help, especially with Madison and Suki, the tours I did. I. I've worked with them for many, like six years each now. 330 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:31.000 Wow. 331 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:35.000 So I do try and help them, like, hey, this is a great person. We should bring on next time. 332 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:36.000 Nice. 333 00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:50.000 This is a really great, you know, obviously budget and this and that, but like trying to help them, like build their team a little bit more efficiently because, you know, I just hate when I see other people's money being wasted and time being wasted and it's sad. These girls put so much time and energy into this. 334 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:51.000 Yep, Yep. 335 00:35:51.000 --> 00:36:07.000 And when you see like haphazard, not to be this girl, but like men just kind of like, whatever, she'll figure it out. It doesn't fucking matter. Dance is the last thing that like I have like one liners written down that things that like just production managers have said and it's just like, what? 336 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.000 Like what? 337 00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:32.000 There's one where it was the dancers are the last thing that matter right now. And I said it's actually the only thing that matters right now we're talking about the stage and the safety of the stage. And because Madison is a dancer right now. You're talking about Madison right now when you're talking about dancers. So if we don't. 338 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:33.000 She's included in that mix. 339 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.000 Yeah, she is included. So when you say the dancers don't matter, you're saying Madison and dancers are 340 00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:37.000 included when you talk about her. 341 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:38.000 Yeah. 342 00:36:37.000 --> 00:36:41.000 Because somebody standing on the edge of that stage or over someone's going to 343 00:36:41.000 --> 00:36:42.000 get on that list over here. 344 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:50.000 Oh. Oh. The idea that different lives have different value is crazy. 345 00:36:50.000 --> 00:37:17.000 And on a zoom. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I love AI now because I record, you know, the zoom recording. And then I can, like, I've. I've gotten very. I've gotten very creative with, like, putting that back in an email of like, hey, per your note of no one matters, so let's just not even have rehearsal. Fuck it. Like, I've gotten. 346 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:18.000 Wow. 347 00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.000 I've gotten spicy with it. Yeah. 348 00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:26.000 Per your note of dancers are the last thing that matter right now. We're not gonna come to rehearsal. 349 00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:31.000 Yeah. So fuck it. Why do we even need rehearsal then? Let's save the money. Let's just all go to Poland. 350 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.000 But that makes you look bad in the end. Because then the. 351 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:35.000 Totally. 352 00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:37.000 Because then you don't. And then you don't. And then that is the problem. 353 00:37:37.000 --> 00:38:05.000 Then it's when you want to die on a hill, you want to make a point. When you want to fit eight numbers in four days and you're given $3, you know? But people are going to go to the show and see, wow, the choreographer only did six numbers. They're not going to know. Oh, well, that's all her. And the dancers were paid for was six numbers. Like, so then you. So then you're, like, battling the public scrutiny of how do I make this a great show? 354 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:06.000 Can I tell you what? 355 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:07.000 Yeah. 356 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:13.000 Riley and I went and saw Harry Styles in Mexico City. When? Like, three weeks ago. 357 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.000 What? 358 00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:20.000 And. And there are two dancers, and they dance on three. 359 00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:21.000 Three or four numbers. 360 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:34.000 Three or four songs. And I would never in a million years say, well, no, I would never in a million years say out loud. They only danced on four because it felt huge. 361 00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.000 Oh, sick. I did. 362 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:40.000 I did feel like I want more, but I had no idea it was only three. 363 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:41.000 Cool. 364 00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:51.000 There was no. I had no sense of time during that show. I had no sense of expectation. They were always being, like, My expectations were always being rocked. And then. And then focused. 365 00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:52.000 That's a good show. 366 00:38:52.000 --> 00:39:00.000 It was a phenomenal show. Great job, Ryan Heffington. Because two dancers on three tracks went a long. 367 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:05.000 That's amazing way. Yeah, that. See, that is like. That's talent. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 368 00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:17.000 That's craftsmanship. And also managing expectations. Like, you have a person who was in a boy band and who is resistant to having a another boy band behind them. 369 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:31.000 It's managing their expectations constantly. You're right. And it's like, what is the talent's time? What is their schedule? What can they do? What is their bandwidth to learn stuff, to be included in things? And yeah, there's just so much more that goes into creating these things. 370 00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:34.000 Yo, choreographers are expectation managers. That's what we are. 371 00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:55.000 100%. Like, why doesn't look like this? Well, this is what you gave me. You gave me a song that is R and B. So, no, it's not going to look like a rock show. What the are you talking about? You know, it's constantly like, are we on the same planet? And I think that's what's funny. You think you're all on the same project together, but, like, half the time everyone's making different things than you think you're making. And communication. 372 00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:56.000 Communication. 373 00:39:56.000 --> 00:40:45.000 Yeah. You, like, can't take it seriously or, like, you can't take it to heart. So you're just constantly having to sales pitch yourself, your process, your product until it's literally said and done. Yeah, yeah. Like, when I did Mother Mary, that was a process because it was like, I need dancers in la. I'm not against using dancers. I did use a lot of German dancers and they were amazing. Or European and UK and all this stuff. But for these specific scenes with Annie, I needed the most time. And for Annie, the most time was with her in New York. So I needed then dancers that were in the States to get her acclimated with dancers and being behind her and doing that. But to get the line producer to understand why that was important and why that was such an important thing. 374 00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:48.000 And, you know, you had to justify the line item. 375 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:49.000 Yeah. 376 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:54.000 You had to be a salesperson and say, here's why you need the Mercedes and not the Ford Focus. 377 00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.000 Yes, yes. And I was like, listen. 378 00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:04.000 And I'm not saying German dancers are the Ford Focus. I'm saying, like, the reason this is an expense for you is because you need it to handle this way. 379 00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:17.000 You need it. Also, sometimes I can. You can get a cheaper lease on a Mercedes than buying a Ford Focus outright. Like, because I'm like, I can do two days With LA dancers versus LA 380 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:19.000 dancers that I know. 381 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:54.000 Yeah. Five days with German dancers. Like, in. In a. You know, like, let's. Let's fucking cost plus this out. Because, again, I get. I understand your limits, but, like, let's. Let's find out how we need to make this work. But I think. And that line producer on that meeting also took out his wallet at one point, like a condescending prick, and said, all more money for. Or you want more money for all your little dancers? And I went. I grabbed my laptop and I said, I'm done. And I pushed it. I was like, you're acting like I'm asking you to, like, braid my hair. 382 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.000 Wow. 383 00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:04.000 Yeah, I think that's also, like. And I love talking. Like, it's. It's those people on those jobs where it's like, I remember the most. I'm like, oh, God. 384 00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:06.000 I could, like, you see that? 385 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:07.000 I could see that guy. 386 00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:09.000 You go to bed every night. 387 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:12.000 And when that movie did well and I saw the premiere, I was like. 388 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:24.000 I was like, oh, don't you. Isn't that kind of funny? Don't you kind of wish that the jobs that were a pain in your ass didn't do well? 389 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:25.000 Sometimes I'm just. 390 00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.000 And when they do really well, you're kind of like, yeah, I was talking 391 00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.000 to someone the other day because they're 392 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000 gonna keep going, doing it that way. 393 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:58.000 Talking about the Madison Post, right? I was like, I'm so over posting about work on Instagram because that's all I use my Instagram for now is just work. It's a portfolio. I'm not gonna post my dog, like, eating my nachos, because I've got that. I mean, I will. I will. But like, a hard post, like, yeah, I used to a lot, and I think now I'm just. My bandwidth is different, but. 394 00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:01.000 Because you're. Yeah, yeah. 395 00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:42.000 But I am so over, like, when I hear this is where it's. This is where it started from. A bunch of dancers did a project they fucking hated, and they were crying and they were quitting, and it was like this abysmal project. But when that thing came out, the project. Thank you so much. Thank you. Oh, I loved it. It was the best. Thank you, John and Sam, for this. And I'm like, hold on. It was the worst thing of your life. I'm so confused. So then it's like, all of these things are just so great and so wonderful, right? So I'm like, why aren't we both posting? Like, yeah, the store sucked. The Production manager was a. And made everyone's life a living hell. 396 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.000 You know why they don't do that? 397 00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:45.000 I totally know, but. 398 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.000 Which is jobs. 399 00:43:47.000 --> 00:44:02.000 Totally. But I can't wait till I get to a point where I could just be like, I worked for FK Twigs a couple years ago on this tour, and her production manager and tour manager just didn't get anyone visas and everyone was destroying her. Like, fuck you. 400 00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:03.000 Because she had to cancel shows. 401 00:44:03.000 --> 00:44:25.000 She had to cancel shows. And, you know, it's like your management says, release the statement. I'm so sorry. I'll be there soon. She was like, fuck that. The show was ready. I was ready. We had the money. We had, like, it was. We all did our jobs. I hired someone and paid someone to do their job, and they didn't. So she came out and said, like, my. My team didn't get the visas. Yeah. 402 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:35.000 And that is different for her. Her, because she is the artist. But for a dancer who is depending on this relationship with this person for future work, it. 403 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:36.000 It matters. I, so I get. 404 00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:44.000 This is a problem. This is a pain point. And this is a challenge for dancers. And honestly, for anyone. 405 00:44:44.000 --> 00:44:49.000 Like, how do you stand up for something? Get. Not burn it down. 406 00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:50.000 Yeah. 407 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:58.000 It still remain, still have respect for yourself and people then can still respect you. Yeah, yeah. 408 00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:05.000 I mean, I, I, I. This is a tough one. 409 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:10.000 Yeah, yeah. Maybe we just stop there on that one. Because if we could talk personally about that all day. 410 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:17.000 No, it's important. And I, I love helping dancers find language for crunchy moments. 411 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:18.000 Yeah. 412 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:26.000 And I think what a lot of us wind up doing from a place of pain is overcompensate. Right. 413 00:45:26.000 --> 00:45:27.000 Yes. 414 00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:36.000 It's cultural for us to want to please and want to be liked. It's also part of our practice to overcompensate. 415 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:37.000 Yes. 416 00:45:36.000 --> 00:45:52.000 When I'm learning how to pirouette and I keep falling out to my right, I'm going to push, I lean to my left, and the next time I turn, I fall out to my left. I think a little bit of that is happening in that moment where we're like, man, that was awful. Man, that was awful. How do I make it better? Oh, I say this really nice thing. 417 00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:53.000 Yeah. 418 00:45:52.000 --> 00:46:05.000 And what I would like to encourage people is that the public forum is not my favorite place to air grievances, but it is a place where I can report the facts. 419 00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:12.000 Yeah. I think also, like, don't make it. Don't romanticize it. Facts. This is the commercial facts. 420 00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:18.000 Last summer, I got to do this project for this brand under this choreographer and team. 421 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:19.000 I think that's my point. 422 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:20.000 Here it is. 423 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:21.000 Yeah. 424 00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.000 Can't wait to hear what you all think about it. 425 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:27.000 Yeah. Yeah. 426 00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:32.000 Somebody might say ungrateful, but also somebody might say cool. Awesome. 427 00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:38.000 Can't wait to think the over romanticizing of the jobs is what's really. Because I think then you're like thinking of this exclusivity. 428 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:39.000 Right. 429 00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:48.000 And then. And then these people go on. These jobs are like, well, why am I not having that experience? Why am I not in love with everyone in the process and this and that. And I think that like kind of 430 00:46:48.000 --> 00:46:51.000 like it perpetuates two really unhealthy things. 431 00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.000 Yeah. 432 00:46:51.000 --> 00:47:00.000 Bad leadership and the people pleasing that leads to like, that encourages the tyrant to keep being a tyrant. 433 00:47:00.000 --> 00:47:26.000 Yes. Yeah. And the ego feeding of the best job ever. Like, I love it when people come to me like, that was the fucking best thing ever. I've never. I haven't had that much fun. I love that. I'm like, please don't post about that. Like, keep that between us. Interested on this. Just. You don't even. I don't even care. That stuff doesn't matter to me why I. I like operating like this. 434 00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:30.000 It doesn't have anything to do with how much you dislike when people do it for other people, does it? 435 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:32.000 I maybe. 436 00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:33.000 No. 437 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:53.000 Because. Guilty. I've done it before. Okay. Right. Like, I. I think like my jobs, I am not doing get ready with me while I. You know what I mean? Like, I. I don't like to. I keep. 438 00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:54.000 Be the center of the attention. 439 00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:56.000 Yeah. I don't like that. 440 00:47:56.000 --> 00:48:11.000 But what we talked about earlier is like the squeaky wheel getting the grease thing. Totally what we're talking about right now. Someone giving flowers to a person who's doing it. Well, like, why is that a problem for you? Because I think we want people to be talking about projects that are well run. 441 00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:12.000 Totally. 442 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:16.000 To be celebrating the projects that are well run. 443 00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:21.000 Can you put that little meme with the girl with the white little like equations. 444 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:22.000 Right. 445 00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:28.000 Yeah. I think it's. 446 00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:42.000 It's personal. You don't like being the center of attention. I get it. But I wonder if there's maybe a world in which you might think of yourself less as Danny Vitale being the center of that. 447 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:43.000 Yeah. 448 00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:45.000 And more as choreographer, as superhero. 449 00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.000 Yeah. 450 00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:56.000 Like, we want dancers championing choreographers. Just like we want choreographers championing dancers. So if you happen to be that where that. 451 00:48:56.000 --> 00:49:33.000 I think, here's the thing. I find to do it in my world. But then when it kind of. I. It's so hard to put words to it. Like, I. I think everyone's really scary, and I think so many people are misunderstood. Unless you're their roommate or their family or their loved one. I think people have these fleeting moments in time and they get misunderstood. And I think unless you deeply know someone or are given the platform to know someone, it's sc. I think for me, it's like, it's 452 00:49:33.000 --> 00:49:35.000 just scary to be misunderstood. 453 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:54.000 Yes. That is so scary to me. So I think it's because I am very complex, you know, And I think the humor and that comes off first, and it's like, oh, I'm funny, I'm fun, I'm lax, I'm this and that. But, like, actually behind that curtain, I'm very, like, particular type a, straight lace. 454 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:55.000 Meticulous. 455 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:56.000 Meticulous. 456 00:49:55.000 --> 00:49:57.000 Want to do a great job. 457 00:49:57.000 --> 00:50:04.000 Yeah. Like, there's like, I am, like, autistically smart about certain things, but I kind of like to give the aloof, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? 458 00:50:04.000 --> 00:50:05.000 It's part of your brand. 459 00:50:05.000 --> 00:51:00.000 It's part of my brand. Yeah. So I think, like, doing this is why I wanted to do this was like, I don't think people know that or understand that or see that. Unless you've worked with me, unless you've known. You've. You've been on some job where we can off in overalls and jump around and eat corn dogs for lunch, and then, like, you know, meticulously go through a blocking scene where I come up with a bunch of ideas, and I, like, surprise you that I could even think like that. Like, I think, though, that's where I. I exist. And I think very few amount of people understand that. Yeah. Okay. And like, I was on a commercial the other day, and, you know, we're all, like, working out and being funny, and then the ad wanted something, and so I was like, okay, we'll do this, this, and this. Then all the dancers were like, well, no, that doesn't make sense. I was like, no, it does. This is what we'll do. And then it took him like, a minute, and they were like, oh, oh, wow. Yeah, you're right. 460 00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.000 And I'm like, interesting. 461 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:17.000 And I think that happens a lot. And I. I do, like, I don't dumb myself down, but I don't, like, assert that, like, I'm in charge thing. And I think I don't. It. That is just not. Yeah. 462 00:51:17.000 --> 00:51:23.000 If I may, as your friend, make an offering, please. If you're okay with production. 463 00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:24.000 Yeah. 464 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:34.000 Thinking you're the bad guy for a second. Then I think you can in, in the pre production phase, like, if you're, you're working on, like asserting yourself in the early part of the production. 465 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:35.000 Yeah. 466 00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:43.000 So that the end part of the production goes smooth, then I think you can be the good guy after the production is over and people had a really good time. 467 00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:44.000 That's true. 468 00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.000 If you're, if you're ready to be the bad guy at the beginning. 469 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:48.000 Yeah. 470 00:51:47.000 --> 00:51:51.000 Then I would love to see you be ready to be the good guy at the end when people are wanting to. 471 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:52.000 Yeah. 472 00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:54.000 Celebrate how lovely it was to work with you. 473 00:51:54.000 --> 00:51:55.000 You're right. You're right. 474 00:51:55.000 --> 00:52:04.000 It's, it's, it's my outside in. Yeah. That's nice. 475 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.000 Yeah. No, and you're right. I think we don't relish in our. 476 00:52:08.000 --> 00:52:18.000 Because usually also you're on to the next already. By the time Mother Mary came out, you'd done three other things and it was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know what you think about that. 477 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:19.000 Yeah. 478 00:52:18.000 --> 00:52:27.000 But I, I, I know you're super critical. I know you have a keen eye, and I know that most of your criticisms are of yourself. 479 00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:28.000 Yeah. 480 00:52:28.000 --> 00:53:01.000 You're very good at making criticisms of the outside world, but you're doubly critical of yourself. And I know you care what people think about you. And I know that you will be misunderstood. And I know that because I am misunderstood. And I literally have a podcast where I'm saying all my thoughts all the time, and still I misunderstood. And it is a thing that is a basic fact of life because I cannot, with the English language, convey my whole lived experience in any given moment. And so that's a risk. 481 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:08.000 And we only compare lived experiences from our own living experience. And that is just so crazy. 482 00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:27.000 It is a challenge that we will be up against until there are weird little mind reading devices, at which point we'll have different challenges. I choose this challenge. I would rather be misunderstood than for everybody to know exactly what's going on in my mind all the time. So I take being misunderstood. I don't love it. 483 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.000 I like that. 484 00:53:28.000 --> 00:53:29.000 It's better than the. 485 00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.000 I like that. I like that. Yeah. Yeah. 486 00:53:31.000 --> 00:53:33.000 I do want to hear a little bit about. We don't have a ton of time. 487 00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:34.000 Yeah. 488 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:38.000 But I want to hear a little bit about the other and biggest project of your life, maybe. 489 00:53:38.000 --> 00:53:39.000 Yes. My big passion project. 490 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:42.000 Your big passion project was just being a caretaker. 491 00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:43.000 My dad. Yeah. 492 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:48.000 Tell me a little bit about your dad. What your daily Life is like when you're not on set. 493 00:53:48.000 --> 00:55:08.000 The juxtaposition from being on set and having this year that I did and then coming home and being with my father is a. It's something I've just never even thought of. Like, I can say I've always, you know, I wanted to always be a dancer and I wanted to be a choreographer and I wanted to have a husband and I wanted dogs and we can. I always like, point back to something you wanted or manifested. Yeah, right. I've always kind of thought when my parents divorced, you know, 18 years ago or something, I'm like, oh, you know, I am a daddy's girl and my dad is my best friend and my partner and my thing's a strong tether. Yeah. I'm like, he will always be my, my responsibility, let's say. But it was always, he was always my drive also to, to be great and to, you know, make money and to put money away and to support him. And I just always. Him and my mom were always so giving and they, they just let me do anything and everything as a child. Like every sport, every style of dance, every competition, every recital number with all those fucking dumbass costumes. Every, you know, like, supportive. So supportive. Like, did it come with a rack of guilt sometimes, like, we don't go on family vacations because we go to nationals. 494 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.000 Oh, you said. Heard, heard. 495 00:55:12.000 --> 00:56:04.000 Yeah, but like, it was, it was always yes thing, and I am so grateful for that. And when I said I don't want to take my SAT and act, and they were like, okay, but why? I had everything prepped. I wasn't just this, like, floozy, just like, I don't know, I'll figure it out. I was like, I want to do this, this and this. And you know, I was on also copious amounts of Adderall, but I had everything, like planned out. Like, I will audition for these and I have these binders still to this day. And so my mom was like, how do you tell a 16 year old that, like, that has this all planned out? No, she can go and do it. And if she, if it doesn't work, she can come home and go to school. School is always here, so I owe everything to them. And yes, they're parents. And being parents for the very first time, which you learn as you get older and you're like, oh, our parents are just doing this for the first time. 496 00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:05.000 They are learning. 497 00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:35.000 They're not pros. They're. They're learning. So while they were learning, they were separating. But Like, I was then manifesting relationships with both of them in different ways. And, you know, just being the. The daughter, you know, you just. I just became really close with my dad and, you know, I got him a house in 2017 with, like my first tour I did with Demi Lovato. And I was constantly, always, like, caregiving for him, but. But in a way of just like, I'm supporting you how you always supported me. As you get older, right? 498 00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:38.000 Giving back. Giving back versus giving everything. 499 00:56:38.000 --> 00:57:04.000 Everything. Yeah. And yeah, you know, he's had. He had some health things, but it was never like, this is scary. This is weird. Lived in Ohio, had a heart attack and had quadruple bypass. And when he came out of surgery, lived alone, drove like he had mild cognitive impairment, but was nothing. That was like, we need to put him in a home. It was very like, you're getting scammed. This is weird. 500 00:57:04.000 --> 00:57:06.000 Okay. It's normal ag. 501 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:12.000 Normal ag thing. We. We should probably, like, talk about this. But I don't know, you know, it wasn't like red flags. Red. 502 00:57:12.000 --> 00:57:16.000 It was like, in the next five to 10 years, we should have a plan for. 503 00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:41.000 Yes. Something. Or we maybe I move home. I don't know. And we just like, maybe live down the street and we just kind of like watch you. And then when he came out of surgery, he had pharmaceutical delirium, which is a new. I learned so much. So while, like choreographing all this this year, I've become like a pseudo fake nurse, slash rn, slash lawyer. 504 00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:44.000 Self taught, self taught, all self taught rn. 505 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:53.000 Yeah. So he came out of surgery just. Just not the same. And you know, you just deep dive into what is this? 506 00:57:53.000 --> 00:57:54.000 Yep. 507 00:57:54.000 --> 00:58:14.000 And so it was like a year of trying to figure out what it was. So many different diagnosis, like Alzheimer's, dementia delirium, ftd, Lewy Body, Parkinson's. Like, so. So many different things. And you just kind of like, pause. You're like, oh, this is my project now. 508 00:58:14.000 --> 00:58:15.000 Oh, nobody's gonna do this but me. 509 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:30.000 Yeah. And you're like, oh, mom is an ex mom. This isn't her responsibility. Respectfully. She's there because of me and my brother. But like, okay, brother, sisters all gone. Dad, mom gone. 510 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:31.000 Wow. 511 00:58:31.000 --> 00:58:33.000 There's no one there. And. And you. 512 00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.000 You and your brother. 513 00:58:34.000 --> 00:58:42.000 Yes, just me, my brother, my husband. And. And you look. Then you're like, oh, this is the point of family. Okay. I guess this is the point of procreate. Okay. Wow. 514 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:43.000 I see. 515 00:58:43.000 --> 00:58:44.000 I see. 516 00:58:44.000 --> 00:58:46.000 Argument for kids. 517 00:58:46.000 --> 01:00:10.000 Yeah. Where I've always been, like, my Work's my kid. My artists are my kids. My, you know, students are my kids. My students. Yes, exactly. So that, that was crazy. And then I actually wrote. I pulled this up on the way here at Stoplights, but I was like, I wrote this thing last year about how caregiving is so parallel to working with artists. And I think it was in the same time the journey started. I was working with like Twigs and Annie and a couple other people. And you know, people come to you like, oh, you're so patient. You're so good with your words, you know, and you, you hear those compliments. And then I'd come home and I'd be at the, the hospital and. And then the nurses are saying the same thing. I'm like, this is so funny. And. And I remember like, my mom looked at me one night and my dad was having this crazy outburst of anger and agitation. And I was just like, it's okay. Hey, yeah, yeah, fuck that guy who's ever standing over there. Oh my God. But like, yeah, fuck him. Do we want ice cream? You know, and my mom was like in tears. I was like, what's wrong? She goes, I'm not. Yes, your dad. This whole thing is upsetting, but like, who are. I can't believe you're my daughter and this is the patience you have. And I was like, oddly, I think it's from working with 518 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:11.000 pop stars. 519 01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:16.000 Pop stars. And like, I say that with like so much reverence. 520 01:00:16.000 --> 01:00:40.000 But no, it's crazy. Actually, I have made the similarity between choreographers and doctors before. My sister's a physician. And there's a lot of overlap in our irregular hours, in our kind of responsible for saving lives. Unconventional, like unconventional non traditional crazy hours. No. Yeah. The difficult to balance work, life, blah, blah, blah. 521 01:00:40.000 --> 01:00:43.000 People not understanding. Like, that's true. 522 01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:46.000 Yes, totally. Like, when you're in it, you get it. When you're not, you don't. 523 01:00:46.000 --> 01:00:47.000 Yeah. 524 01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:55.000 But I think it sounds like you're experiencing that from the inside, which is like, oh, yeah, I know how to operate under these, these wild conditions. 525 01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:56.000 Yes. 526 01:00:56.000 --> 01:00:57.000 Because of this thing that I do all the time. 527 01:00:57.000 --> 01:02:23.000 Yeah. And it be kind of. It became this thing that I kind of like just fell into. And like, yes, it's. It's been over. It's almost two years now. And I. I could not do it without my husband. I would literally die. Because we also have an 18 year old Chihuahua. So I feel like we have a hospice house. Yeah. It's really funny, like trying to. Yeah. 18. I did not know that. I've had her since I was four. Literally three. Yeah. And so it, it, it's, it's. This chapter right now is very interesting because I'll be on like a call I'll never forget. Like, it was a music call with a 24 and like all these people. And my dad walks in a dream. A dream, a dream call. Dream, dream, zoom. And my dad, like walks in the background, like in his like, depend. And like five electric razors and they're all on. And he's just like, what the. And I'm like, be right back. What? I'm like, this is a perfect. A 24 movie. I'm like, like, actually. And I can imagine it. Humor is the only way we can get through this. My dad was that guy. He's still kind of that guy sometimes. Of humor. Like, he'll fart and he'll be like, that's all I do lately. Like, there are moments where it comes through, but humor literally is, is the vessel in which we are moving through this. 528 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:25.000 It's your coping, it's your yeah. 529 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:27.000 Because it makes no sense. 530 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:28.000 Yeah. 531 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:56.000 And it's. I, I've met so many amazing people talking about it. I have made amazing relationships with people just voicing it and explaining like, yeah, I'm tired. This is where I'm at. And then someone across the room's like, I'm dealing with the same thing. And it's like you, you feel this crazy skin crawling connection to this person that you've never met. And then I have friends that I've had for 20 plus years that just, have fully, just dissolved. 532 01:02:56.000 --> 01:02:57.000 Wow. 533 01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:30.000 And I think that's a weird part of it. I think talking about frivolous things of entertainment world crap and then coming home and wiping my dad's ass earn him not knowing who I am. Or that's. It's so humbling is the wrong word. It is just, it's eye opening to like, what's important. And I've learned how to make boundaries. I've learned how to have patience. I've learned how to respect my time, which is now his time. 534 01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:32.000 You've learned who your people are. 535 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:57.000 I've. God, have I learned who my people are, which is so weird. And you read. I read about it constantly. I'm such a nerd online. I'm constantly on Reddit talking to people. And I've met so many people on TikTok and Instagram who have parents that are, you know, going through it. And I think also it's such a big thing that is happening with the boomer generation, all of us will have 536 01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:05.000 to deal with losing our parents. We either dealt with it when we were young and they left, or we will see them leave this world. 537 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:06.000 Yeah. 538 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:08.000 And why are we not better prepared for that? 539 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:18.000 Okay. I literally wrote this on the way here. I'm like, we all about not knowing about taxes. Why didn't our parents teach us? But, like, also at the same point, how did no one teach us that, like, they're gonna die one day. 540 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:19.000 Death is imminent. 541 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:20.000 Death is imminent. 542 01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:21.000 Only thing that we are certain of. 543 01:04:21.000 --> 01:04:34.000 And I have feared it since I was a child. I was the kid that, like, found a rock at recess and was scared to leave the inanimate object outside because I feared that it had feelings of being left. 544 01:04:34.000 --> 01:04:36.000 So 545 01:04:36.000 --> 01:06:18.000 a part of the dementia and the Lewy body. And the Lewy Body is odd because it's like this where, like, other types of dementias are like, step downs. You know, one day he is my dad for an hour, and then he turns into a monster. Then a zombie, then my dad. But then, like, a drunk version of my. And then he's seeing. It is like this. And then as a dancer or choreographer, I'm trying to po. Oh, well, he ate this, but then he did this, but then he pooped, but then he wore this, but then he drank this. So maybe this affected this. And you're so. I'm constantly trying to make sense of it. Yeah. And, like, so it's exhausting. But, yeah. He lives with me and my husband. We have an amazing caregiver that comes during the week sometimes. And it's just wild, you know, you think you're ready for kids. And it's so different. It's so different than. Than anything. And I have so much love and respect to people who have gone through this, are now talking to people and connecting because caregiving is the anticipatory grief of it all. Is the phrase that I learned this year of. I look at it as black and white, like, oh, but okay, we're all taking care of someone. Oh, you have baby, I have dad. Same thing. But it's like, oh, you're watching your kid growing and. And hope, joy, and whatever you put into it, it's coming out of it. And the anticipatory grief of a parent. I think we're at an age now. I just worked with someone who said, I almost wish my dad had cancer and not this, because this. He's in a perfect bill of health, but his brain is. We don't know. 546 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.000 Yeah. Yeah. 547 01:06:19.000 --> 01:06:23.000 What it is. Every day you kind of wake up. You're like, 548 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:24.000 how do I treat? 549 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.000 How do I treat this? 550 01:06:24.000 --> 01:06:25.000 How do I treat? 551 01:06:25.000 --> 01:06:40.000 Am I crying? Am I laughing? Is this the last day that he'll speak? You know, and you're. You're just in this, like. Oh. This, like, constant roller coaster that's just kind of always. Honestly, always going up, like. 552 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:41.000 Ah. 553 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:41.000 It's just, like, clicking. 554 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:42.000 Ascend. 555 01:06:42.000 --> 01:06:48.000 Yeah. You're just like, constantly going up and that click. And you're. And you just. Yeah. 556 01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:49.000 Oh, my friend. 557 01:06:49.000 --> 01:06:50.000 Yeah. 558 01:06:50.000 --> 01:06:58.000 Thank you for sharing that so poetically. I know when you're in it, it doesn't feel like poetry. It's like, this is my life, and I don't understand it. 559 01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.000 Yeah. 560 01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:01.000 And I want to. And I want to help. 561 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:02.000 Yeah. 562 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:02.000 I want to be helpful. 563 01:07:02.000 --> 01:07:22.000 You know what? Really quick, before we go. So I know we need to go, but I saw this really beautiful thing online about grief and people who, you know, lose grandparents, parents, friends, dogs. Like, I think we always. When someone loses someone, we look at what our relationship is with our grandpa. Right. Or whatever it is. Totally. 564 01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:24.000 It's all we have to relate. 565 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:54.000 Right. But we don't know, like, that grandpa must have. Might have been dad or brother or, you know, whatever. But this small town, probably in Sweden or Switzerland, because they do everything perfect, is when someone dies in the town, they change something in their front yard. So they either, like, change their fence or put up. They change something, like, visibly that everyone can tell, because after someone dies, things aren't the same. 566 01:07:54.000 --> 01:07:55.000 Ooh, I like this. 567 01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:59.000 Isn't that beautiful? Because it's now with everything you can 568 01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:10.000 signify to the world, a meaningful change has happened which honors and recognizes that loss of life is a meaningful change. 569 01:08:10.000 --> 01:08:17.000 And we're versus, like, we'll be fine. Yeah, we'll be fine. Or let me know if you need anything. Sending you food for a week, and then life just goes on. 570 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:18.000 Oh, yeah. 571 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:34.000 But, like, grief is a big thing, and. And, I mean, even pets, like, being out here. Oh, I know. I know. Like, we get these pets out here, and there are. I got her when I was 20 on the Camp Rock 2 tour. Like, out. That is my. 572 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:35.000 That's your ride or die. 573 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:36.000 If my. 574 01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:36.000 It's your daughter. 575 01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:37.000 I tell my husband, I'm like, if 576 01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:40.000 he died, I'd be sad, son. So. 577 01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:46.000 But, like, Bella or Mia, commit me. Come find me. 578 01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:49.000 It's real, it's big, and we don't have the necessary tools. 579 01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:55.000 We don't. Or, like, remember when we used to wear black, like, old Italian Women back in the day, they would wear black, right? 580 01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:56.000 For what? 581 01:08:56.000 --> 01:09:02.000 Like. Like, until they were done grieving or, like, could go out in public and 582 01:09:02.000 --> 01:09:06.000 be 583 01:09:06.000 --> 01:09:11.000 a little more. I don't know. I don't know what. What the threshold was of. Of when they stopped wearing black, but, 584 01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:13.000 like, there was, like, a number of days. 585 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:14.000 Was there. 586 01:09:13.000 --> 01:09:14.000 I feel. I don't know. 587 01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:20.000 Or was it just, like, personal preference of, like, hey, you know what? I'm feeling okay today. I'm not gonna wear black. I think it was kind of like that. 588 01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:21.000 Love that idea. 589 01:09:21.000 --> 01:09:22.000 Yeah. 590 01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:29.000 I'll tell you right now, I'm not okay if Riz dies. Which she might not. 591 01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:34.000 She might not. Yeah. 592 01:09:34.000 --> 01:09:37.000 I will also say. And we might need to go out on this. 593 01:09:37.000 --> 01:09:39.000 Yeah. 594 01:09:39.000 --> 01:09:59.000 I was giving a critique, judging once, and I don't know how it was. Without my permission, the thought of her, of Riz's lifeless body entered my mind. Stop. I'm laughing because I'm like, I don't give permission. I didn't care. I. Nothing about this moment called for that. 595 01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:00.000 And it just came. 596 01:10:00.000 --> 01:10:07.000 But you know what? No, that's not true. It was about sadness. The piece was about grief. I'm trying to relate to what I'm watching. 597 01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:08.000 Yeah. 598 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:28.000 And my brain offers me that. And I was in tears. I was inconsolable. I had to apologize. I was like, I am sorry. A huge well of emotion is surfacing. I would like to congratulate you for accessing that in me. And something you're doing must be going well, because I'm. Now, you tapped into something. 599 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.000 You did. 600 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.000 You broke. 601 01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.000 You. 602 01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:32.000 You broke the. The. The dam. 603 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:37.000 And I think, like, with corporate America, you can kind of, like, take a grieve of absence, leave a. Like. 604 01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:38.000 But, like, with this art, we don't have. 605 01:10:38.000 --> 01:10:42.000 No. I'm going to, like, class, and I'm doing jazz hands. 606 01:10:42.000 --> 01:11:05.000 Yeah, we're auditioning. We're putting the face on. Oh, my friend. Well, I hope that, you know, you don't have to put a face on in our, like, friendship. You obviously have to put a face on for our recorded hangs, which you did very beautifully today, by the way. You guys, wait till you see if you haven't. Danny's coming soon. Little snippet. You look so beautiful. 607 01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:06.000 Do I? 608 01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:07.000 Yeah, it's really beautiful. Okay, okay, okay. 609 01:11:07.000 --> 01:11:11.000 I got new foundation, so I'm, like, very excited. 610 01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:14.000 Yo, finding the color, dude. Finding the color. 611 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:16.000 Do you know how long I was in that fucking Sephora for? 612 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:17.000 How long? 613 01:11:16.000 --> 01:11:19.000 Like, three hours with those fucking bitches 614 01:11:19.000 --> 01:11:21.000 would you end up getting is it Lady Gaga? 615 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:24.000 No refi refi refi thing and I 616 01:11:24.000 --> 01:11:28.000 really like it but that was when I was 10 and now I'm not 617 01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:42.000 so it's called refi. I don't know whoever Maryland at Sephora off of Ventura and Reseda. Thank you yeah but yeah how do 618 01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:48.000 we there's no way to really wrap this I just I'm gonna tell you this seat is open to you anytime 619 01:11:48.000 --> 01:12:01.000 you I think it needs to be a once a month let's go we come and recap my cup Runeth dry Thank you so much. You're the best and the world is very lucky to have you and this 620 01:12:01.000 --> 01:13:02.000 thank you my friend and I really appreciate that. That means a lot. Thanks for watching Listening Leave a Like Subscribe Review Notification Keep it funky. Leave a Like Subscribe Leave a Notification that's me. Boomer Out Dance plus is produced by me with the help of many big big big big Love to our Executive Assistant and editor, Riley Higgins. Music is by Max Winnie, Logo and brand design by Bri Reitz. Our communications team consists of Ori Vajadares and Sydney Richardson, and we've got extra help from LMU intern Carly Clayton. If you're digging the podcast, please leave a review or rating. Also, if you want to connect with me and the many marvelous members of the Words that Move me community, visit danceplus podcast.com if you're curious to know more about me and all the stuff I do outside of the podcast, visit thedanawilson.com.